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Mozilla Hubs.

Added by Nate Lager 3 months ago

Posting this for visibility, not competition.

I'm sure you've heard of mozilla. You know, those guys who build a browser with your rights in mind.

They have side projects, much like that evil empire of Google does, and a co-worker pointed me at this one, since he knows I'm interested in Metavese-y stuff. It's called Hubs, and it seems to be trying to solve the same problem as vrspace.

https://hubs.mozilla.com/

Its more cartoony, but I dont think it needs to be.

I think part of this metaverse concept needs to be interoperability. So playing along with, and knowing about, other projects, seems important.

So here ya go. :D


Replies (12)

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nick Naglich 3 months ago

It's a really neat project, and I have personally spent a few weekends trying to get a server running on DigitalOcean.
Off the bat I don't like their server setup, and requirements to have it cloud hosted (there's no self hosted code or docker image). Right now there's only actual support for AWS :(

I do however LOVE their web based world builder "Spoke" https://hubs.mozilla.com/spoke
The interface is easy to use and kind of reminds me of Unreal Engine 4 development.
Something like this for VRSpace would get artists and creators on board fast.

The client side supports VR locomotion really well, and the PC/Mobile works almost like an app (the touch controls for mobile are solid).
It's a great product and I would be using it if it wasn't for the server hosting...

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

My take on mozilla hubs:
Their intention was never to build the software that folks can use and customize and run like everywhere. They built what they need to run on-line service, and published the source. If that suits you, fine, if not, go somewhere else :)
Well that's how it looks to my short-sighted but experienced eye.

My take on Spoke - ROCKS!
I can't make and maintain something like that alone. But that's pure javascript, so let's see if we can integrate. I'd expect .spoke file to be some custom JSON, is it documented anywhere?
FTR my design of world builder is trade-off, minding that I was working alone, and same UI works on PC, mobile and VR gear. The later necessary means that UI is sub-optimal on every platform :)

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nate Lager 3 months ago

Yep, first thing i noticed was the lack of a truly self hosted option. Its still neat, and better than the completely closed offerings that are out there.

I didn't try spoke, but my first thought after reading here were, could it be integrated or used with vrspace?

For that matter, I did some tinkering with VRChat, and learned how to make spaces for that using unity. Can vrspace spaces be made with Unity? Guess it all depends on the format.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

I've been told that Unity exports GLTF, i.e. that some models that I worked with are exported from unity.

There's also babylon exporter for unity. I tried to set it up myself, but failed miserably :) Seems like it's in permanent alpha.
But I laid my hands on something exported like that, and made UnityWorld class: https://github.com/jalmasi/vrspace/blob/master/babylon/js/ui/unity-world.js
Some tinkering with exported html file required, comments are supposed to help with that.

Either way that's a yes.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

Ah right, more details in unity ticket here: https://redmine.vrspace.org/issues/40

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nate Lager 3 months ago

Cool. Maybe I'll tinker with creating a space at some point then. The info I'd gathered was very vrchat specific, using their SDK, and i only just got familiar with it. Seemed like it could be easy to use once you get the hang of it. but yes, it did seem rather finnicky. And even the slightest change in unity version completely broke your project. Or at least it did for my very novice skillset.

I believe i read that blender could do this as well. so maybe thats a good option.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

Yep, blender gltf plugin does that.

Typically models are authored in multiple tools, but I don't know much about these tool chains.
Like, terrain and/or maps are built in one, buildings in another one, then everything assembled in the third one.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nick Naglich 3 months ago

I'm more of a Unreal Engine guy, there's a glTF exporter plugin that works well.
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/gltf-exporter

I personally don't think relying on other services and plugins for world building in the long run is a good idea though.
Reducing the steps for content creators is important, and something like SPOKE (that is tailored for VRSpace) would set it appart from other "metaverses"

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nick Naglich 3 months ago

Josip Almasi wrote:

My take on mozilla hubs:
Their intention was never to build the software that folks can use and customize and run like everywhere. They built what they need to run on-line service, and published the source. If that suits you, fine, if not, go somewhere else :)
Well that's how it looks to my short-sighted but experienced eye.

You're spot on with this assumption..

My take on Spoke - ROCKS!
I can't make and maintain something like that alone. But that's pure javascript, so let's see if we can integrate. I'd expect .spoke file to be some custom JSON, is it documented anywhere?
FTR my design of world builder is trade-off, minding that I was working alone, and same UI works on PC, mobile and VR gear. The later necessary means that UI is sub-optimal on every platform :)

I don't see any in depth documentation, but the exporter seems to be in Editor.js starting around line 340
https://github.com/mozilla/Spoke/blob/master/src/editor/Editor.js

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

...and on the line 392 we have

    const exporter = new GLTFExporter({
      mode: "glb",
      onlyVisible: false,
      includeCustomExtensions: true,
      animations
    });

LOL

OK I'm going to make the ticket now.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Josip Almasi 3 months ago

Nick Naglich wrote:

I personally don't think relying on other services and plugins for world building in the long run is a good idea though.
Reducing the steps for content creators is important, and something like SPOKE (that is tailored for VRSpace) would set it appart from other "metaverses"

I do agree, but someone else needs to do it. I can maintain 10-20K lines of code in my spare time - that's about vrspace code base now, 15K java and js combined.

On the other hand - we simply must keep the ability to let authors use tools of their choice. You know, freedom and stuff, but my wife uses bunch of very expensive proprietary stuff by autodesk ;)
Yeah now that I mentioned, let me explain one very important use case of vrspace - BIM online. Building Information Modelling professionals make their buildings in, say, autodesk revit, but these buildings contain everything that every architect, civil engineer, contractor and subcontractor needs to make a building; that's how they collaborate. And for a bargain of $10 or so, BIM manager can purchase a plugin that exports GLTF, and publish the current state of the building online.
We tried it and it works. Sure it's not as simple as a click, some more clicking is required to export only useful parts of the model. E.g. plants as they are in revit are super-heavy for rendering, these need to be turned off - sorry landscape architects, you're not supported for the time being.

RE: Mozilla Hubs. - Added by Nick Naglich 3 months ago

Josip Almasi wrote:

Nick Naglich wrote:

I personally don't think relying on other services and plugins for world building in the long run is a good idea though.
Reducing the steps for content creators is important, and something like SPOKE (that is tailored for VRSpace) would set it appart from other "metaverses"

I do agree, but someone else needs to do it. I can maintain 10-20K lines of code in my spare time - that's about vrspace code base now, 15K java and js combined.

Totally understandable. I still need to wrap my head around building a world and then will try to hack something together until a more competent coder can step in. :)

On the other hand - we simply must keep the ability to let authors use tools of their choice. You know, freedom and stuff, but my wife uses bunch of very expensive proprietary stuff by autodesk ;)

Agree

Yeah now that I mentioned, let me explain one very important use case of vrspace - BIM online. Building Information Modelling professionals make their buildings in, say, autodesk revit, but these buildings contain everything that every architect, civil engineer, contractor and subcontractor needs to make a building; that's how they collaborate. And for a bargain of $10 or so, BIM manager can purchase a plugin that exports GLTF, and publish the current state of the building online.
We tried it and it works. Sure it's not as simple as a click, some more clicking is required to export only useful parts of the model. E.g. plants as they are in revit are super-heavy for rendering, these need to be turned off - sorry landscape architects, you're not supported for the time being.

That's cool, do you have any issues with polygon limits running those? Do they work on the Quest?

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